Just curious if anyone else thinks it might be a good idea to do away with the forum as it does not get any activity and makes it look like Washington state chapter is completely gone.

Hasn't the chapter (and sub chapters) gone dark? I come back now and then to see how long it has been between posts. I just hit up the sub chapter sites and updates and posts haven't happened in months and months. Why keep any of it running? (I am seriously asking because if the chapter is still active where is a blog post or even a once a month newsletter to those who signed up saying so? Not all of us feel like attaching ourselves to FB and Twitter.) If there is activity, where is it?

Since the collapse of the chapter I keep researching on my own and doing what I can to inform people. I have probably 50 pages of notes, commentary, and references to scholarly and professional sources outside TZM/TVP that either directly or indirectly supports the claims that Jacque and others have made. With everything I have read, watch, and heard, I have come to the conclusion that the best place to really make a difference is in how I will raise my child(ten). If culture starts at home then changing a culture starts with children. Is there time for a culture shift? I honestly don't think so, but it is the only thing I know I can do that doesn't rely directly on anyone else or any piece of high technology and I have to do something.

So what went wrong?

As I said, culture starts at home. As such, the chances that coming together as a "movement" in any meaningful sense and being productive was slim with all the various view points and egos, built on erroneous and invalid cultural norms competing against each other. This is what I experienced at the one meeting I went to several years back at the old library location in Seattle, and it is what I soon saw here on the forums and it was frustrating and unproductive. There was no cohesion. Some people were fixated on the conspiracy stuff. Some were fixated on metaphysics and pseudo-science. Others demanded (openly and angrily demanded) that everyone fall in line and attend every event or meeting or you were not a "true" member. There was a push to expand with little planning or the requisite number of members. TeamSpeak meetings were just rants about the world's problems. How is this ever supposed to work with that foundation?

I once asked here on the forums for a reboot of the entire chapter, starting over and dumping the format it had evolved with, researching known tools and practices for team building and project management, presenting the topics, creating a structure that focused on educating about the basic principals of the solution offered, the evidence for it as well as the evidence against the current system while abandoning any position on anything that was highly divisive such as conspiracy or religion. My posts were pages in length, yet went either unread or met with silence or derision. I made the mistake of feeding the trolls and eventually threw up my hands in disgust. I ask myself how are "We" ever going to help educate anyone who doesn't know anything about an RBE or even basic sustainability if those who are supposed to be on board won't even take the time to carefully consider propositions built around the very ideology we're supposed to espouse? That was about the time I walked away. (I met with "ScarletLetterMan" once in Seattle around this time and had a wonderful discussion with him for a few hours. Soon after I was hit with several family disasters and this contributed to my backing away.)

Basically the choice had been made for me - I realized the culture and social structure in place over us is too powerful to break in one generation and this is backed up by science. It will take at least two generations for a major shift, likely through primarily educating women if you look into it. I've come to understand this and others need to as well. I have no illusions anymore that I will live to see an RBE even begin. I've seen many people get so pumped up about the idea and then become disillusioned and burn out... we all come to the realization this isn't going to happen in our life time. I'd wager most fizzle out and go back to their old ways of thinking. I'm sure others like me have been going into and out of depression and near manic periods at the thought of looming financial chaos or collapse and the challenges that presents. Still others keep fighting and rallying downtown and in the encampments. We all do what we must I guess.

I am not an in your face activist but I take offense to the idea that because I can't or won't go downtown that I am not doing anything or doing my part. I half jokingly call myself a "passivist" because I shy away from confrontational approaches. As I see it, either you were already questioning something fundamental in life or you weren't. If you were then you'll either research something of what I say or you won't. (And most won't.) If somebody says something about the economy, science, culture, or another topic as I engage in conversations that I know to be false I politely call them on it and quickly pull up a reference for them to check out and leave it at that. Pretentious or impolite? Maybe, but it is the only thing I am comfortable with. Just like a preacher isn't likely to convert the atheist, a supporter of an RBE isn't going to breakdown the decades of cultural indoctrination and programming that has people locked into "taker" thinking. Realistically by the time people are 25 - 30 it is getting too late to open minds.

I've already written too much on here as I do on nearly every forum post I make everywhere I go. What else can I do? If I say only a couple words or sentences the failings of our language become clear just as Jacque says and people get the wrong idea by filling in what they think I meant or said. I have to write a lot to say a little to try to be clearer.

In conclusion then let me say I still want to participate. I've offered to help. I've offered to meet both "officially" and just for the hell of it. (Many times in the past though work has prevented my going to gatherings... I still have to survive and support a family I am trying to grow.) I still want to connect. If there is somebody who ends up reading this then respond. Show me that there is somebody here. Otherwise close the forums and the sites down. Put up a big graphic admitting the experiment failed in our area, a link forwarding to the Canadian or other nearby US state chapters, and contact info for who to contact to gain access to the domain name so if another group wants to try to start cleanly they can without any interference from the baggage of TZM WA version 1.0.

Regards,

Josh

We shouldn't do away with the forum. It costs us nothing and gives a central location for people to potentially connect without having to be on Facebook or some other social site. Unfortunately, most of any activity is happening on those social sites. Generally the WA chapters have been pretty quiet though. We had a good run in early 2011, but it dropped off again. Seems that it has gone up and down several times.

The reality is that it takes quite a few people to create enough 'critical mass' in conversations and keep things going. I personally would prefer that we move everything to Facebook, just because people actually check it daily. That being said, a number of people are categorically opposed to FB, so we will keep this up. Obviously people don't visit it as often or see posts though.

Ultimately the problem with TZM is that it's more about a mentality shift and spreading information right now than it is about activities. That often makes conversations on the forums feel like 'preaching to the choir' without any specific goal. My suggestion would be to come up with some ideas for more creative oriented and internet projects that can be simultaneously fun and spread information... instead of setting up 'meetings'. That being said, the Seattle group has been pretty active on its Meetup.com group -- here's a link if you want to check it out. There is actually a chapter meeting tonight too.

www.meetup.com/ZeitgeistSeattle/

DEFINETLY DO NOT SHUT DOWN! That is absurd to shut this down no matter how low activity is. Awareness is raising every single day whether they reach the site now or later just being here helps and plus you guys do not seem properly motivated if you are watching tons of video's then post them! If you are reaching people then have them join! If your current methods are not working then figure out a new way. IDK what to say besides giving up is not an option! I am 19 and new to the movement and I am already reaching people its hard but I am consistent and will continue to be consistent! The only thing I truly do not like about the way this movement works is that it is so subtle which is good but I think these ideas should not be left up to the DUMBED DOWN PUBLIC to randomly stumble upon! I think they should be conveyed in a manner of not forcing them to realize the state of affairs we live in today but damn near forcing them! Or at least throw it in there face then they can make a choice!

WE ARE HERE YOU JUST GOTTA CREATE MORE MOTIVATION IN YOUR PUBLIC! AND PEOPLE FROM OTHER MORE LOCALIZED CHAPTERS SUCH AS SEATTLE AND ALL THE OTHER RED ICONS ON THAT MAP NEED TO JOIN THE REGIONAL CHAPTER TO!

I hear you Josh and I agree. I wish we had better organization. A leader to help guide our efforts in one unison direction, to save energy and time. To focus on what truly matters, to educate the most the best way possible. I came to this site for answers and I am left empty handed. My heart is in the right place, all I need is direction.